Heheh, yeah when I saw that I thought, "Hmmmmmmm..."

Greg -

"...I thought..."

Oh *DID* you... And, was it your *own* thought?

I might have to make a movie out of this.

... and partially why we hired you, but...

Progress is the difference between a good idea and the execution of a good idea. Similarly, a complaint is not progress when there's no action associated with it.

You work at Microsoft now, you're no longer a victim. Find the owner, learn about the motovation, fix the problem if it exists.

Sorry for being so blunt, but this post is sort of like saying "my car is dirty and I don't like dirty cars" when you have the power to go rinse it off.

Paul -

"Sorry for being so blunt, but this post is sort of like saying 'my car is dirty and I don't like dirty cars' when you have the power to go rinse it off."

I would usually agree, but I think it's important for people to know as well that not *everybody* inside the company supports trying to turn people into Thought Police Deputies.

Over on Slashdot, they're pretty much eating us alive (with good reason for once), and it's not very pleasant.

"Over on Slashdot, they're pretty much eating us alive"

Willing to bet how many softies are posting on slashdot, rather than slashdot eating softies?

anon -

"Willing to bet how many softies are posting on slashdot, rather than slashdot eating softies?"

I doubt that it's a lot of softies.

I don't have any data to support that position - just a hunch.

Which puts us in the same boat :)

Short films about IP theft? Hey, I thought of that in 1998!

To be honest, I don't even think about it when Microsoft does this kind of stuff.
It's like when your retarded cousin goes over and sticks his finger in the pudding at the buffet. It's annoying, but he doesn't know any better and he (apparently) can't learn.

So, once again, we go over, smack Microsofts hand, and say "No". Knowing that it won't do any good, but still needing to make the effort for our own sanity.

How About Bill G. saying that never should have gave Stock Options to his employees to motivate them. He created more millionaries than any company in history and he said that it was a mistake, and you wonder why Micro$oft has an image problem. #*(@&)!& Mirco$oft.

Brian -

"He created more millionaries than any company in history and he said that it was a mistake"

Well, yeah, but have you thought about what happens when you make your employees millionaires?

The answer is: A lot of them *quit*. They don't need to work anymore.

G'bye, employees.

I guess I must be stupid. I don't see that contest as a bad image thing for Microsoft.

Am I just missing someting? Explain how this is creating a bad image for Microsoft please. To me it makes sense.


(I also didn't see Bill G saying stock options for employees is a bad idea as a bad image thing)

I think it does hurt Mirosofts image way more than you think becuase they can no longer attract the best programers straight out of school. If your the baddest programer coming out of school right now why would you go work at microsoft when you could go work at google. Or better yet start your own startup. Google is still giving out generous stock options and if you develop something cool you still might be able to retire at 30. If it dosen't work out you could always go grind out a software career at microsoft.

Also, back when he was giving out stock options to motivate his employees it wasn't at all clear that microsoft was going to be the market leader that it is now. That is how he got his employees to work days, nights, weekends, and holidays to ship a product. Microsoft hasn't been nearly as good at shipping new products since they've stopped giving out generous stock options.

No, no, Rory! That is helping! I have always been afraid of people stealing my thoughts... what if I discovered the secret of holographic chambers, and someone with a thought-stealing gun robbed it from me and sold it to Vivid? That would mean no more free 3d pr0n for my friends and myself... and that would suck... :(

If you had a brother, like I did, and you had Legos, like we did, you'd know exactly where this type of behavior comes from... fear of losing + the knowledge you have to sleep sometime = stupid. Needless to say eating Legos didn't do much to help my situation either...

Weird though.. just hit this topic a few days ago here . http://dotnettemplar.net/OnCommonTheft.aspx

Nice prizes:
The winner of each category will receive £2,000 of film and video equipment vouchers.

I don't know about you, but I don't want a damn voucher though I'm sure it's a "guaranteed" way to make sure the money is spent on film and video equipment, not cheap whores, booze, or recreational drugs.

My question then would be who the hell is supplying the vouchers? If it's Target or Walmart, I'll pass. If it's from a manufacturer like Sony or Canon then maybe it's worth it.

Ahh then there's the fine "legal speak" print on prizes here: http://www.msn.co.uk/thoughtthieves/termsandconditions

"The winner will receive £2,000 worth of Jessops vouchers to spend on film and video equipment. Prizes as stated and are non-transferable. No cash or other alternatives available. Microsoft reserves the right to substitute prizes of equal or greater value. The voucher prize will be presented to the winner at the Awards. If the winner is not present, their prize will be sent to them by post by 19th September 2005. Vouchers are subject to their own providers' terms and conditions for which Microsoft takes no responsibility."

I would assume Jessops is some place in London people in the U.K. are familiar with. Of course not being able to see the vouchers one can't tell if there's an expiration or if anything even seems reasonable. Of course this is a good way to produce a work and let other people see it but it is very fishy. The entry form speaks of "Release of Rights" though a release form, that phrase with coupled with the term "Thought Thieves" almost suggests Microsoft would be the thieves here, "stealing" your work for them and in return you just might get some vouchers for 2,000 pounds worth of equipment which you have no clue if it's for specific equipment or if that is even worth it. Microsoft accepts no responsibility for the lameness of the vouchers is what was said in the terms and conditions page, so this doesn't seem like a good investment of my time if I were in fact someone interested in film.

Does some anti-piracy themed film request tarnish Microsoft's image? Not specifically. Reading the fine print does but only in my book since most people might skip right over it. It's not incredibly saturated with legal speak that no one on earth but lawyers can understand it (like almost every single Microsoft EULA) though, so it's not all bad. I think giving out money would be a better alternative, relying on the recipient to actually do the right thing. This suggests that you don't trust them to do so, which is a small slap in the face. I'm sure MS did it to cut costs. In the entry form part of the "release of rights" for the winner means that the film will be on the MSN website, Microsoft may use and publish their name and country of residence, and that it will be shown at the winner ceremony. No mention of royalties or that Microsoft will specifically keep your credits. I take the term "may" in the sentence to mean they could or could not but it could also mean that they're asking permission to use it which should almost be assumed. They better get credit for their work or MS is no different than the people they're fighting against with this competition.

My favorite line by far is #7 on the "release of rights" section of the entry form (18 and over):
I will formally licence on terms acceptable to Microsoft, all intellectual property rights
in my film and agree to waive all moral rights in relation to my film if requested to do
so. I understand that if I do not complete the necessary documentation by the stated
date, my entry will be disqualified from the competition.

Waive all moral rights? Formally license all IP in my film and if I do not, it disqualifies my entry as a finalist. That's great, especially since I have no clue what that license is now or would be. I may never want to enter if it's too restrictive or I don't get enough credit.

This sounds way too hokey to me. If this was an industry I was interested in I simply would not enter. The site and everything raises way too many questions that it doesn't answer, questions vital to understanding exactly what's going on. If I'm going to sign a contract or "release" my rights, I better know exactly what the hell I'm getting into up front or I might as well not even start. You're wasting both of our time if you do that, yet I suspect a lot of people simply don't care.

Rory...dude...we TOTALLY have to do a short film about this...;)

After reading the <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/updateservices/evaluation/faqs.mspx">FAQ</a> for the soon to be RTM Windows Server Update Service (formally known as Windows Update Service) I concluded Microsoft had lost all sense of humor completely. The FAQ comments on the name change by actually saying, "Based on customer and partner feedback, the name Windows Update Services and the associated abbreviation (WUS) did not accurately describe the functionality and value of the product."

When tasked with developing a Windows Patch Management solution for our business I immediately donned the project, "Project Barney" obviously paying hommage to Maybery's original security WUS. Guess I'll have to rename the project now. Oh well...

After seeing this contest though... maybe they DO have a sense of humor after all?

But it's meant in jest, right? It's an April Fool's Day joke that missed its date?

Make a film about intellectual property, and give it away to Microsoft for free. That's nice. A Rory/Scott spin on this might be a good idea.

I noticed all submissions become property of MS...

Here's the way I see it. Probably the reason Microsoft did this was to appeal to corporate customers, people who aren't techies. They've had to deal with co-workers stealing their ideas and passing them off as their own. It's happened alot from what I hear. So MS figured why not give them an outlet for their frustration and give them some exposure to MS at the same time. The problem might be that they get some submissions from some disgruntled technologists who point their cameras at Microsoft itself and say, "I invented this, see? Now look at this from Microsoft? See what total bastards they are??" whether MS actually stole the idea or not. I'm sure whoever came up with it wasn't even thinking about this angle.

Mark -

"Probably the reason Microsoft did this was to appeal to corporate customers...So MS figured why not give them an outlet for their frustration and give them some exposure to MS at the same time."

The ad targets young people, though - not corporate types.

Microsoft's image problem is real, but it has nothing to do with the video contest you mention. If you think you can help fix Microsoft's image problem by looking at their anti-piracy marketing campaigns, you're looking the wrong way.

There's nothing wrong with teaching kids to obey the law. Far better for Microsoft's image would be to start setting an example by obeying the law itself.

The image problem comes directly from more serious matters, the most important of which is the recurring pattern of unfair business pracices against most everyone they deal with.

Including competitors (see Novell vs MSFT, RealNetworks vs MSFT, Sun vs MSFT), customers (see EU vs MSFT, DOJ vs MSFT, various states vs MSFT), and most importantly partners (Bristol vs Microsoft, Sendo vs Microsoft).

All of those can be found in various court documents. Picking one at random to illustrate what really creates an image problem for Microsoft - look at the Sendo vs Microsoft case: http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/37507/37507.html

Deliberately driving partners to bankrupcy and stealing their IP is far far worse for Microsoft's image than any silly ad campaign.

[Back on topic -- on the subject of the Contest for a Video about IP, I think a documentary on the Sendo case would be a great one.]

RonM -

That article contains nothing but accusations.

What happened in the end? Was Microsoft found guilty?

RonM said:
Microsoft's image problem is real, but it has nothing to do with the video contest you mention. If you think you can help fix Microsoft's image problem by looking at their anti-piracy marketing campaigns, you're looking the wrong way.

There's nothing wrong with teaching kids to obey the law. Far better for Microsoft's image would be to start setting an example by obeying the law itself.
<Snip>

As I was reading this, I was thinking to myself..'Self, man this sounds like the post yesterday about the cell phones' and lo and behold it's the same person making the same charges... So what's the deal you on some sort of crusade?

(same guy again) - yeah... I guess it's some sort of crusade -- I've been involved in a startup (but not that one) where a larger "partner" (though not microsoft) did something similar.

Today's news has another one where it was proven in court that Microsoft stole someone's intellectual property.

http://news.com.com/Patent+ruling+costs+Microsoft+8.9+million/2100-1007_3-5735432.html?tag=nefd.top

" June 7, 2005, ... -A jury in U.S. federal court found that Microsoft infringed on a Guatemalan inventor's ... Microsoft, based in Redmond, Wash., began using his software without permission in various versions of Access, such as Access 95, 97, 2000 and 2002, according to Amado, who said he created the technology while he was a graduate student at Stanford University."

Small compared to some of the older ones; but even the small ones contribute very poorly to Microsoft's image problem.