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Windows Live Writer Team and Microsoft - You Bunch of Dummies

Today, I've been fortunate to experience some of the phenomena that, in my opinion, exemplify the stupid end of Microsoft's approach to... well, just about everything on the consumer end of things.

A little context first...

I'm in a cafe right now, and I brought my tablet instead of my Mac because I had some forms to fill out for the sale of my condo. The tablet functionality makes my life much easier. Instead of dealing with faxes - one of the oldest and crappiest technologies still in use - I turn PDFs into images and then fill out the forms using Sketchbook Pro. I have formaphobia, and anything that makes the repetitive, confusing, and often seemingly pointless activity of filling out a dozen forms every two hours is something that, if not a source of joy, is at least a less painful alternative dealing with these things in meatspace.

While here, I suddenly felt like writing about a number of things. Stuff I'm still going to write about, but not until I get back to my Mac.

I author all my posts with Windows Live Writer. Not this one, though, as I'm having to use the junky web interface built in to Community Server. It's fine in an emergency, but it's definitely the dinky backup parachute you don't want to have to use.

I'm using it because I didn't have Windows Live Writer on this machine. I thought it'd be a simple matter to grab it, install, and get to work, but I'm a good twenty minutes into the installation and little progress has been made. This would already be an unpleasant experience for a heavier app, but it's unacceptable for something as simple as Windows Live Writer.

I only code nowadays for kicks, and I don't write anything substantial. I'm back to doing things for the fun of it, and because I still love what coding does to my brain. There's a great reward that comes from acquiring an understanding of a mess of cobbled together ideas implemented in cumbersome ways. That sounds like a complaint, but it's actually one of the things I like most about coding. There's still, even after decades, a feeling that programming technology is the wild west of the computer world. However, the type of fun of overcoming the challenge of coding isn't fun when found in end user apps.

Even though I don't code much anymore, I have years upon years of experience, and I have a pretty good idea of what goes into creating any particular app.

That's why I'm confused and frustrated about my experience today with getting Windows Live Writer.

I love Windows Live Writer - the app itself. It's one of the few reasons I run Windows XP inside Parallels on my Mac. It's one of the apps I didn't want to leave behind when making the switch. It's simple, easy to use, and, despite being a Microsoft app, doesn't get in the way of itself. The interface is a little cluttered for what it is, but a couple settings can clear that right up.

What I can't stand is how difficult it is to get the stupid thing. I headed over to the Windows Live Writer Blog and started the download there. It was about a 2 MB file. It was a nice change from the usual bloated downloads you get from Microsoft.

Of course, it turns out that it's just an installer, and not one specific to Windows Live Writer. As many of you have probably learned, it's a full on assault on your sanity. Instead of simply installing the one app I want, I have to negotiate with the god damned thing just to get the "real" installation started.

It reminded me of the old Real Player days when, before finally agreeing to install the app, the installer wanted your social security number, a list of any STDs you have or have had, your checking account number along with the ABA, an agreement to subscribe to eighty magazines you'd never read, and an offer to be put in a drawing to win a trip for two to Cancun if you mail them your passport.

When Real Player crossed the line from being self-promotional to being a scourge on your computing life, people stopped using it. Not everybody - there are still a few victims out there who don't know any better - but it's widely hated in geek circles where tolerance for bullshit is minimal.

Given the advantage of hindsight, it's mind-boggling that the Windows Live Writer team has gone down the same path. And, given my experience on the Inside, I'm sure that the Windows Live Writer team has little to do with the stupidity of the install experience, but as an end-user now, it's not my job to figure it out or to care. They're being represented by this crap, and their product is going to take a hit because of it. It's unfortunate, as it's likely some dipshit-originated system imposed on the Live Writer team by some grand Initiative in the Microsoft tradition. Someone does something good, and other people, eager for success and recognition internally, hijack and then ruin the product. This happened to me, albeit in a different way (and not when I was with Channel 9). I was in shock at how easy it was for someone else to swoop in and destroy something I was just getting right. The Windows Live Writer team probably - hopefully - feels the same way about what happened to their product.

That's Microsoft for you.

To get back to it, I was interrogated and pushed around by the Windows Liver Writer installer. It wanted to change default search and web settings. It prompted me to install a bunch of crap I don't want. If I wanted the other apps, I would have gone and installed them separately. If I wanted my defaults changed, I would have done it myself. It wanted to do everything but install Windows Live Writer.

After a dozen stupid dialogues, it moved on to some phase during which it was looking for other "Live" apps. I don't know how they've implemented the search, but it feels like they've bypassed checking the obvious places and instead scanned the entire disk bit by bit until they found something that might be an object of the search.

That went on for twenty minutes. I'm not exaggerating. Yeah, Vista runs like a dog on my Toshiba tablet (despite the Core Duo 2 whatever whatever blah blah blah and more than enough RAM), but even that can't explain why there was such hardcore suckage.

Eventually, the install dialogue (was it actually installing?) notified me that things were taking longer than expected, and thanked me for my patience. I'm not sure what patience it was referring to. My patience ran out in the first three minutes when I wasn't able to install this one little thing.

What gets me is that Windows Live Writer is a simple app. Any coder with a bit of experience and dedication could whip something similar up without too much effort or time. In the old days, I might have done that. The first client side blog authoring tool I ever used was one I wrote in an evening with VS.Net Beta 1. It tied into a blogging system I wrote in Java. I didn't even know what I was doing, but the thing still worked, and it worked well.

Windows Live Writer is much fancier than the little client I created, but as I noted, I spent little time on mine. Given a few weeks, I could have grown it into something providing the basic features Windows Live Writer that I like so much.

So, given the simplicity of this app, why in the hell is it so damned hard to install? Its footprint is roughly 10 MB. In 2008, that's like dumping a digital grain of rice on a drive.

Eventually, the CPU spiked and the laptop died. I'm back at home now, writing this on my Mac where I have an older version of Windows Live Writer installed under XP inside Parallels. I have no intention of "upgrading" from this release.

But this isn't just about Windows Live Writer. It's about some basic Microsoft methodologies that totally disregard the user's needs and limited resources. When I say "resources," I'm referring to things like the amount of time people have to spend working with your kludge. Users are already overwhelmed by spam, the work they have to do, other apps to install, updates that arrive and force you to restart when you're right in the middle of something... it's disrespectful to demand more of them than necessary. Time wasted shouldn't be the blackmail of installing an app.

These people at Microsoft are impulsive. They internalize every bit of user criticism and then bend over backwards to accommodate everybody. It sounds like a warm fuzzy way to work, but it's just plain stupid. It results in huge changes with each release. The familiar gets shifted around and replaced. Imagine waking up each morning with your nose attached to a different part of your body.

This stuff is all done by committee, and it seems as though the products are designed directly from brainstorming sessions where "no idea is a bad idea."

It's like giving a dozen children each a set of Legos and a unique goal, but to attach their creations to the others using whatever means necessary. You'd end up with a freakish pile of nonsense because the structure wasn't looked at holistically. Somehow, this thing is allowed to continue to exist, and the kids continue to add their own touches. Over a few iterations, you have a space station next to a castle sitting on a volcano near a beach and a village of pigmy cannibals.

Good job, guys.

I know I'm becoming a snotty Mac user, but after months of having made the transition, I understand why we go snotty. Apple doesn't churn out perfection, but they're hyperaware of the user experience. Things occasionally crash, and Safari has a memory leak that, although a rare event, can shut down the app.

But overall, these are small things. They stand out because they're the exceptions. Most of the time things simply work. As I've said before, even Windows runs far better as an app under OS X than it does on its own. I don't know why that is, but there you go.

It's things like this that drained me of the motivation to continue promoting Microsoft products. The further in I got, the worse my opinion of the company was. The clutter you experience on the user end is the product of clutter internally.

If it weren't cruel and a danger to the economy, I'd suggest that Microsoft fire about 40,000 people.

What that company needs is to stick a finger down its throat, vomit up the offending elements, and move on.


[Gratuitous Links to my Homies - Not Part of the Post Above] [Learn More]

Instead of doing these all the time, I'm going to switch back to having a traditional blogroll. I'll still add links for the one-offs, but the regulars will always be listed on the side. Shouldn't be too long before it's done...

Published Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:11 PM by Rory

Filed Under: ,

Comments

 

Robz said:

Have you thought of the Windows Live Writer Portable?  Less pain, install one time somewhere and then use this instead.

http://www.techlifeweb.com/2007/09/08/windows-live-writer-portable-20-now-with-u3/
February 12, 2008 6:49 PM
 

Kal said:

In one sentence, you misspelled "Windows Live Writer" as "Windows Liver Writer".

I don't know whether that was intentional or accidental, but either way, it sounded so true in the context.

February 12, 2008 7:13 PM
 

Arron said:

Microsoft is staring at this blog right now and going, "Eh, doesn't matter, he's a Mac user."

:)
February 12, 2008 7:31 PM
 

Charles Teague said:

[I'm a dev on the Writer team]

Hey Rory,

Wow. That was a very detailed and well thought out post. I wish I could say we're perfect, but as you are clearly aware of, we aren't. That said, as we keep working on the next release of Writer, and once it is available as a beta, I would be thrilled to read that you:

1) Did upgrade
2) Thought the installer provided a reasonable and sane experience
3) Found that we didn't implusively change things to bend over backwards for everyone
4) Continued to use Writer even in parallels on a Mac

I was glad to read that you were still sticking with Writer on your home machine. I'm sorry it was such a terrible experience getting it on your new machine. Point taken.

Best,

Charles
February 12, 2008 8:24 PM
 

Scott said:

Dude, that's a lot of words.
February 12, 2008 8:58 PM
 

Josh Bancroft said:

You definitely need to try out MarsEdit for the Mac - it beats the pants off of Windows Live Writer IMO. I'm not affiliated with them in any way other than as a happy customer and huge fan/cheerleader. The developer, Daniel Jalkut, is a pretty cool guy, too. :-)
February 12, 2008 10:00 PM
 

peter said:

good post best read in ages and ages
February 12, 2008 11:55 PM
 

Rory said:

Robz -

"Have you thought of the Windows Live Writer Portable?  Less pain, install one time somewhere and then use this instead."

I haven't. But my beef isn't only with the process - it's with the thinking behind it.

While I like the idea of this Portable thing, what I *really* want is to be able to grab Windows Live Writer without having to resort to third party solutions to the problem.
February 13, 2008 12:21 AM
 

Rory said:

Kal -

"In one sentence, you misspelled 'Windows Live Writer' as 'Windows Liver Writer'.

I don't know whether that was intentional or accidental, but either way, it sounded so true in the context."

I caught myself in one spot where I did that. It confused me. I couldn't figure out what "Liver Writer" meant. I stared for a little while before correcting the typo.

I suspected that there might have been more in the post, but then dismissed the assumption because there was no possible way I could have screwed up twice.

To continue living this lie, I'm going to pretend that you didn't notify me about the typo.

I couldn't possibly have screwed up twice.
February 13, 2008 12:24 AM
 

Rory said:

Arron -

"Microsoft is staring at this blog right now and going, 'Eh, doesn't matter, he's a Mac user.'"

Yeah... but he's a Mac user who's keeping Windows around for a couple apps, and one of those apps brought to the surface some Issues I've had with the big M for a couple years now.

Even if I'm running Windows in the background on another virtual desktop, I'd still like Microsoft to get it together where messes like this are concerned. Not because it will have a huge impact on my life - I could always move away from MS entirely - but because, while I was working there, I saw this stuff all the time and it was so *wrong*.

There are plenty of great people at Microsoft. I'd love to see what would happen to the company if the lame people holding them back got out of the way.
February 13, 2008 12:29 AM
 

Rory said:

Charles -

"That said, as we keep working on the next release of Writer, and once it is available as a beta, I would be thrilled to read that you:

1) Did upgrade
2) Thought the installer provided a reasonable and sane experience
3) Found that we didn't implusively change things to bend over backwards for everyone
4) Continued to use Writer even in parallels on a Mac"

1) This is dependent on #2

2) I hope so, too

3) The app itself is great - I was talking more about Microsoft in general - there are spots in the post where my general feelings about the company overlap with my comments about Live Writer - this was unintentional, and I apologize if I gave the impression that I didn't love Live Writer

4) At the moment, your app is probably the *only* reason I keep Windows around - Windows Live Writer is worth having an entire OS installed to run it - I wouldn't be so beefed up if I didn't love Live Writer

"I was glad to read that you were still sticking with Writer on your home machine. I'm sorry it was such a terrible experience getting it on your new machine. Point taken."

I don't know if it's you guys or some other branch of the Live thing, but the real problem here *is* the installer. If your team can choose to go without the current "installer," that'd be just swell. Otherwise, track down the people who did the installer and tweak their nipples until they submit. If it *was* you guys who did the installer, then don't bother tweaking your nipples - use your hands to fix the real problem.

And don't take any crap from customers. If I were you, I'd have told me to fuck off.

'Course, I got weekly phone calls from people wanting to fire me :)
February 13, 2008 12:37 AM
 

Rory said:

Josh -

"You definitely need to try out MarsEdit for the Mac - it beats the pants off of Windows Live Writer IMO."

I did, and the app looks lovely, but I had problems getting it to work with Community Server.

For now, WLW is my best option. Given the choice, I'd prefer to use MarsEdit, but until I can get it to work with my junk, all I can do is fire it up and think it looks pretty.

February 13, 2008 12:41 AM
 

Rory said:

peter -

"good post best read in ages and ages"

Thanks :)

I've focused so much on creative writing over the past few months that I forgot I had opinions about things I didn't invent.
February 13, 2008 12:42 AM
 

Ringelnatz said:

Hey, Rory, even my wife managed to use Live Writer. Maybe you just turned in a GIRRL! ;-)

And Rory... didn't read the entire post. It happens more often lately. Maybe it's my attention deficit disorder or maybe it's you. ("In der Kürze liegt die Würze.")

Ringelnatz
P.S.: You're right: setup of WLW is a mess. But why do you expand it to the entire company and 40.000 poor employees. What happened to you?
February 13, 2008 4:26 AM
 

Mareek said:

"Apple doesn't churn out perfection, but they're hyperaware of the user experience."

That's why they hide the page where you can download Quicktime without iTunes and even when you find it, they make sure that the apple updater install iTunes the next time you want to apply a security patch.

Of course I'm just a shitty windows user who is too stupid to understand Apple's awesomeness.
February 13, 2008 6:42 AM
 

Jersey Girl said:

I'm with peter.

You may try to transform us as much as you like, but you still have readers who care most about your view on tech stuff.

So there.
February 13, 2008 8:02 AM
 

Charles Teague said:

I don't mind taking crap from customers if Writer gets better by sucking it up and listening. :)

-charles
February 13, 2008 9:28 AM
 

Michael C. Neel said:

The only thing I would say is that your problem is with Windows Live and the team behind that pushing the "installer".  I say this because the WLW team has been excellent in working with feedback, and even worked with me one-on-one to get Writer to support my custom blog.  The "Blog APIs" are a mess of conflicting standards and faulty implementations - WLW has made sure to support all the big guys while working with the little guys like me.  That's awesome, and the plug-in ability put it over the top.

I do understand though why installer sucks (and agree - it was a shock the first time I went form the standalone installer to the live version), and why in the customer's eyes it's right to blame WLW for it.   That's what the WLW team should be taking back to the Live crew - that people want a stand alone installer as an option, and forcing the shared installer is going to piss more people off than get people to check out other services.
February 13, 2008 9:54 AM
 

Rory said:

Ringelnatz -

"Hey, Rory, even my wife managed to use Live Writer. Maybe you just turned in a GIRRL! ;-)"

I have a fragrance collection, I'll spend hundreds of dollars on a pair of shoes, and I like to cuddle.

I'm not so sure that Windows Live Writer is at the center of my womanness.

"And Rory... didn't read the entire post. It happens more often lately. Maybe it's my attention deficit disorder or maybe it's you. ("In der Kürze liegt die Würze.")"

That's normal. Especially with tech posts. Geeks get fired up before they've finished and then respond without knowing what I'm talking about.

It happens from time to time with other posts, but the tech ones *always* have these comments. And there's often that one guy (or a dozen guys) who say, "I didn't read the entire post..." and then give their opinions on it.

"P.S.: You're right: setup of WLW is a mess. But why do you expand it to the entire company and 40.000 poor employees. What happened to you?"

What happened to me is I worked for Microsoft for three years. You didn't read the post in its entirety, so you may have missed it, but I wrote that this isn't just about Live Writer - it's about Microsoft's approach to user experience in general.

I saw - and was subject to - so many dirty tricks on the inside. There's a constant battle between the stupid people and the smart people, and the stupid people do quite well. Probably because stupid people are scared of the smart people and do whatever they can to get more stupid people to work at Microsoft. A good way to retain your power and position is to ensure you aren't being challenged by other employees.

The sad thing is that I'm not exaggerating.

The company is bloated. I said myself that firing tens of thousands is cruel, but when you have managers for managers for managers for managers for managers for managers and managers for them, you have something ridiculous.

It's like TV shows nowadays. You'll see a dozen producers credited per episode. Everybody wants a piece.

When the managers outnumber the employees 10:1, something's wrong. And another way of maintaining power and looking important is to leave your mark on whatever you can. You're constantly being badgered by employees and managers who want to slip their crap into your project. If they don't like the resistance they're getting because you're more interested in quality than their stupid politics, they'll go over your head if they can. Microsoft employees and managers succumb to the fear of getting on someone's bad side higher up the ranks.

There's little accountability, and you probably couldn't track down the offenders if you tried.

The idiots make the good people look bad. That's why they need to be fired.
February 13, 2008 1:09 PM
 

Rory said:

Mareek -

"That's why they hide the page where you can download Quicktime without iTunes and even when you find it, they make sure that the apple updater install iTunes the next time you want to apply a security patch."

Google for "quicktime" - the first result takes you directly to the download page, and you don't have to pull iTunes with it.

And, in my experience, you don't have to install iTunes for a security patch. The updater (on Mac, anyway) let's you pick and choose which patches to install. If you don't want iTunes, then don't let the updater download and install it.

"Of course I'm just a shitty windows user who is too stupid to understand Apple's awesomeness."

You're taking this rather personally. I never called Windows users "shitty" and I didn't call them "stupid."

I'm a Windows user. I just prefer OS X, and I can articulate why. My preference in no way suggests that you're an idiot.
February 13, 2008 1:14 PM
 

Rory said:

Michael -

"The only thing I would say is that your problem is with Windows Live and the team behind that pushing the 'installer'."

I have no way of knowing that. As I wrote in the post, as an end user, it isn't my job to know or to care who's at fault for the mess that is the installer. I intentionally took the naive position to show that the Live Writer team is likely being misrepresented by the Live team pushing the installer. I can't imagine that the Live Writer team is overly concerned with me installing ten other apps, having default browser settings changed, and not even being able to install the app itself after twenty minutes of churn.

As a former Microsoft employee, and as I've said in the post as well as in the comments, I saw so much crap like this internally - that's what's behind the post. I have nothing against the Live Writer team - I love Windows Live Writer. If I keep Windows around primarily for Live Writer, then I probably think highly of it, wouldn't you say?

Again, though, I intentionally framed it to make the Live Writer team look responsible regardless of whatever may be the truth. In part, this was to show the team that their fantastic product's image is damaged by being sullied by a Microsoft Initiative. Initiatives are popular up at Redmond. People get caught up in ideas. To their credit, many of the ideas are well-intentioned, but at some point you have to get past your excitement and honestly decide if this is the right thing to do.

There's also a herd mentality. You'll get a few token dissenters who argue just to argue (and sometimes even argue because they care), but if someone higher up says this thing is going to be great, you have the normal human response of caving to authority. That mentality can obviously get in the way of doing something right. MS employees lose their perspective in things like "passion" - when everybody's passionate, they're going to make stupid decisions. Passion isn't rational.

"I say this because the WLW team has been excellent in working with feedback, and even worked with me one-on-one to get Writer to support my custom blog.  The 'Blog APIs' are a mess of conflicting standards and faulty implementations - WLW has made sure to support all the big guys while working with the little guys like me.  That's awesome, and the plug-in ability put it over the top."

I totally agree. Charles came right over here to chat about it - that's good. One of the reasons i love Writer is the support for screwed blog APIs. The app itself is fantastic.

However, these things don't make up for the installer. And, to be absolutely clear, I'm not *just* talking about WLW's installer. I'm talking about the Microsoft approach in general. The apps *are* bloated. I did a video with Scott Hanselman recently (I don't think it's been posted yet), and he made the joke, "I started up Outlook yesterday... it's still loading."

There's truth to that. Outlook is a great app, but it's stuffed with... what? I have no idea. But whatever it is, the thing is huge, is resource intensive, and, even on a great machine, can churn and bog things down. I don't care how complex or great the thing is - it's a mess.

WLW is a comparatively small app. You'll have fewer people fighting over it. So imagine the political mess that is the Office division. I doubt it's helping, and the WLW installer is a good example of where these things start.

"I do understand though why installer sucks (and agree - it was a shock the first time I went form the standalone installer to the live version), and why in the customer's eyes it's right to blame WLW for it.   That's what the WLW team should be taking back to the Live crew - that people want a stand alone installer as an option, and forcing the shared installer is going to piss more people off than get people to check out other services."

Agreed, and that's the point. The Live Writer team shouldn't have to screw the user experience to accommodate someone's idea of Live promotion. I know Live is there - I know Live search is there. But the reason people don't use it is that it sucks. The interface is fantastic - the image search UI especially - but it doesn't matter. Google does a better job, and that's no secret in or out of the company. So, not only is the installer intrusive - it's promoting something that people aren't using simply because, although they know about it, it sucks. That makes the installer's pushiness all the more offensive.

I want to see teams like Windows Live Writer continue to put out great stuff without being damaged by stupid ideas.
February 13, 2008 1:33 PM
 

paul said:

Glad to see you writing about software Rory, some Teams at Microsoft are very good at listening to feedback.

Maybe Yahoo! should hire you as a poison pill to prevent this takeover thing.
February 13, 2008 2:07 PM
 

The Cowboy said:

Wow, man.  That's the best post I've seen since the creation story.  I'm a complete Microsoft Sellout.  I work in C# all day, I use Vista at the office and XP at home.  I come home and write more C#.  I use Office.  I reformatted my Linux box years ago.  I just spent my children's inheritance on an XBox 360.  

And yet I can't argue with a damn thing you've said.

Other than that there are plenty of other installers that do the same kind of crap, and historically Microsoft was not as bad about it.  Thank <Insert Deity of Choice here> that I installed WLW before the installer went insane.  <Deity of Choice> help me if I have another hard drive crash.  

I do get so tired of "Would you like to install Google Toolbar?" and it's checked by default.

If I did, I'd go download it.  The last thing I need is five freaking search toolbars again.  It took me forever to clean that mess up.

"Do you want to make Google your Hompage?"  It already is, thank you.  And if it wasn't, I'll set it myself when I'm darn good and ready.

Apple isn't innocent either.  The last time I installed Quicktime I found ITunes on my machine.  Maybe I missed the innocuous checkbox that's on by default, but I did not conciously ask them to install ITunes.  All I wanted to do was play a video file.  They just figured I probably needed it.  And the little service that spun up every time my PC booted.  I have ITunes on my machine again, in fact, but this time I chose to put it there.  (Needed a Puccini recording fast).

And Adobe.... ****** ****** Adobe, or whoever the hell they are now.  All I want to do is be able to read a ****ing PDF.  Why do you have some little update service running on my PC?  And why the **** is it so damn hard to find it?  I know it's there because they keep popping up the ****ing update window.

Maybe I should go back to Linux....
February 13, 2008 2:18 PM
 

Celes said:

Happy to see you posting.

I share enough interests and enjoy your writing style enough that I almost don't care what you post about. As you are posting, I always find something interesting, entertaining, etc.

<whine>(same goes for your podcast which I miss...)</whine>

From cat poop to computer apps... Rory Blyth.

"When Real Player crossed the line from being self-promotional to being a scourge on your computing life, people stopped using it. Not everybody - there are still a few victims out there who don't know any better"

People still use Realplayer?

*blink*

I'm trying to remember how old I was the last time I used it... all I know is that I was still living with my parents and watching fansubbed anime with bad resolution.
February 13, 2008 9:19 PM
 

Ringelnatz said:

Thanks for the answer, Rory! I read it entirely ;-)

You mentioned user experience at Microsoft. What about user experience on Neopoleon.com? Don't you know that we readers don't have enough time between porn watching sessions on the Intarweb to read these long posts? You don't listen to the users too, like Microsoft. I know, you are the manager of the manager of the manager here at Neopoleon.com.

Don't forget: I'm the one who will buy dozens of copies of your books. ;-)
February 13, 2008 11:37 PM
 

Eric said:

Might as well start using something like marsedit and get it over with ;).
February 14, 2008 2:31 AM
 

mareek said:

I wasn't taking it personnaly, I just tried to mock neopoleon's hyperbolic style. Actually it'sz seems that there's only one Rory and only fools try to imitate him ;-)

I'm jsut tired of reading that apple do things right when they do just as bad as Microsoft. For ewample, the last time I wanted to install quicktime the download page looked like this:
http://www.pcdoctor-guide.com/wordpress/images/applequicktime_240206_1.jpg
(It's slightly better today but the default download is still quicktime+itunes)

And when I launched Apple software update a few weeks later beacause I heard that apple has patched a security vulnerability in quicktime I got this window even though I didn't have iTunes installed on my PC:
http://www.tnl.net/img/blog/applesafari/softwareupdate.jpg

And don't get me started about safari for windows, it's probably the worst thing apple made for years.
February 14, 2008 9:21 AM
 

Windows Install Experience « Andrew Whitten’s Team System & WCF blog said:

February 14, 2008 1:43 PM
 

Lloyd_Humph said:

Somebody hit the nail right on the frickin' head.

I wanted to download a slightly non-public release of WLM 8.5? Not without installing THIS and THAT and THIS AGAIN.

Makes you want to shoot yourself. Still, at least the updater doesn't crash your computer... fuck you Adobe :P

I agree. WLW is *brilliant*. It's *amazing*. But whoever wrote that installer needs to be SHOT. AGAIN. And AGAIN. Then shot AGAIN.

I'm in a caps-lock mood.

**Will be posting about this in a mo on my blog**
February 14, 2008 2:30 PM
 

Lloyd Humphreys » Windows Live Installer "Issues" said:

February 14, 2008 2:38 PM
 

An angry Microsoftie vents his spleen | Techitorial said:

February 14, 2008 7:25 PM
 

Rory - Neopoleon said:

I tore into Microsoft the other day for the style of thinking that gave birth to the installer app for...
February 14, 2008 8:44 PM
 

Rob said:

Here's the thing with the Live brand: it used to be MSN.  

It's like on the first day of school the class loser shows up with a cool new wardrobe- only he's still a loser and will get rolled for his Nikes before the end of the day.  

Live has great technology but it's still dominated by the same marketers that made MSN suck.

February 14, 2008 10:09 PM
 

mpbk said:

Mareek -

Apple makes the worst Windows software.  QuickTime is a huge stinker under Windows.  I've never understood why.  Slow, porky, awkward, buggy.  They probably could have hired a couple interns and ended up with a better product under Windows.

QuickTime currently crashes on exit with a null pointer dereference on my rig.  It has been this way for several versions, and a Google search shows I'm not alone.
February 15, 2008 3:00 AM
 

Joel Esler said:

Freakin awesome post.  You hit the nail on the head.

@mpbk -- I've always had the consipiracy theory that this was on purpose.  To make people say "well, maybe this app, which i really like, is awesome on the mac" then they try it on a mac, find out they were right, and switch.  

Theory...
February 15, 2008 7:05 AM
 

Windows Live Writer Team and Microsoft - You Bunch of Dummies said:

February 15, 2008 7:15 AM
 

An angry Microsoftie vents his spleen | Satblog.info said:

February 15, 2008 9:22 AM
 

Harry Lime said:

"Author" is a noun, you pretentious twat.
February 15, 2008 9:38 AM
 

Mike Cane said:

>>>There's a constant battle between the stupid people and the smart people, and the stupid people do quite well.

Wait.  I thought MS didn't allow stupid people in.  Or is it only the *smart* people who have to go through those tests with questions like, "Why are manhole covers round" and "How would you move Mt. Fuji"?  Really, this is a revelation to me.
February 15, 2008 11:43 AM
 

Rory said:

Harry Lime -

Let's pretend for a moment that you aren't an idiot and go over what you said:

"'Author' is a noun, you pretentious twat."

A) "Author" has been used as a verb since 1596. I'll leave it up to you to do the research to confirm this, though you should have done the research yourself in the first place. Nothing is more embarrassing than... well, doing what you did.

B) I absolutely am pretentious. This is what happens when I'm better than you.

C) I may even be a "twat" in the way you've used the word. It's hard not to notice that you're a curmudgeonly pedant, so I don't feel it's right for me to honor your abuse of a word that means "vagina," but, in the spirit of being the bigger man (or twat), I'll allow you to use the word as you see fit (meaning "asshole" or "dick," both of which are words describing body parts and are used as slang for the word "fucker") given what is likely a shortage of vocabulary and intelligence to express yourself in a clearer, more meaningful way.

I'll agree with you on one point - you're correct about "author" being a noun.

But, as I've already pronounced, "author" is also a verb, you incorrect, pretentious, pedantic twat.
February 15, 2008 3:23 PM
 

Lakshmipathy Bhat said:

Insightful post and made for great reading. Agree with every word said about Windows Live Writer - I actually like the app. It's nifty on several aspects compared to similar Mac apps (I use MarsEdit on my Macbook and WLW on my office XP laptop) - e.g adding Technorati tags are simpler.

It's irritating to download a 2MB file to discover that its only an installer. The options bundlled along with the installer (messenger, photo album & mail) do not anything better what one is already used to. Why bother?
February 15, 2008 6:40 PM
 

clvrmnky said:

"If it weren't cruel and a danger to the economy, I'd suggest that Microsoft fire about 40,000 people."

Would it really be all that bad?  Isn't MSFT one of the largest employers of temps in the world?

I thought HP and Microsoft were in a race to the bottom to see how large they could get with having the proportionally smallest amount of real, full-time employees.
February 17, 2008 9:30 AM
 

hemp said:

Hi Rory,

Long time occasional reader, first time commenter.

Just wanted to add to this discussion that beyond the Live installer representing all that sucks about software, it also had the effect of temporarily preventing WLW from being installed on 64-bit machines, even though WLW itself worked perfectly well with 64 glorious bits.

I blogged about it, here: http://www.shawnhempel.com/2007/09/07/WritersBlock.aspx

P.S. You're on my Blogroll - hope you don't mind. I figured a link to Your Royal Highness would boost my blogger cred intrinsically.
February 19, 2008 2:45 PM
 

» A Beautiful Rant i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness said:

February 21, 2008 4:52 AM
 

MiniMage said:

Thank you! My experience with getting WLW was also quite ridiculous, but I wasn't smart enough to blog about it (no loss, as no Softie would have seen it). I, too, have stuck with the beta on other machines. I noticed that the beta versions could be copied and used without issue (even the plugins didn't have to be re-installed); I'm debating seeing if the current version can save me some hassle by being just as portable (without the 3rd party).
February 21, 2008 7:26 PM
 

More insight into the clusterfuck that is Microsoft from a former employee — 1FPS | Everything matters said:

February 21, 2008 8:53 PM
 

Joe Cheng [MSFT] said:

MiniMage, if Google Blog Search indexed it and the words "Live Writer" appeared in your post, then yes, we would have seen it. :)

Beta 2 and Beta 3 should both be automatically upgraded to Final if you have Microsoft Update installed and opted in to "Important" updates. This should happen sans Windows Live installer craziness.
February 22, 2008 12:51 PM
 

James said:

I'm sorry you had a crappy install experience, that really sucks.

I've installed Writer and the Live suite from early betas up to the current release on at least 4 machines running XPSP2, Vista 32 and Vista 64.  Aside from the refusal to install on Server 2003 (a simple annoying refusal, not a technical incompatibility so far as I know; someone should be slapped for that), I really don't see the problem.  Yes, the "make MSN my home page" is insulting, but I guess old habits die hard and Yahoo does it too, so...

Anyway, in all cases the installer worked quite well.  It takes a while but the simple fact is Windows Installer does a lot of stuff behind the scenes and those things take time.  I write MSI packages and this is pretty normal.  Considering that the install time includes the download time I think it's pretty impressive.  

I'm writing this as a former (and sometimes current) FreeBSD junkie/admin who lived by "make buildworld/make installword" for several years.  I still long for the days of Windowmaker as my primary desktop but I drank the XP/w2k3 kool-aid and it's really not so bad on this side.
February 25, 2008 11:45 PM
 

Rory, boot, Microsoft installers « Smurf on Spreadsheets said:

February 26, 2008 5:04 AM
 

On the inside said:

Jesus, I'd laugh but I work at MS and I'm crying. Funny and true. Which also means it's sad.
February 29, 2008 7:52 PM
 

Rory - Neopoleon said:

Yeah - that's right - I'm being hard on Microsoft, and some people think I'm doing it for attention,...
March 1, 2008 3:16 PM
 

Beyond Hostile » Blog Editor Suggestions, and I’m Out of Milk: Technology lifestyle blog fortified with cynicism and vitamin D said:

March 2, 2008 12:40 AM
 

Windows Live Writer said:

March 3, 2008 1:38 AM

Insert foot in mouth here:

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